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TOPIC: The right gap between sail sizes

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #1

A quick one for you guys : Which of these 2 scenarios would best cover wind range without too much overlap?
6.0 / 5.2 / 4.7
Or
6.0 / 5.2 / 4.5
Not a significant difference, I admit.
...Just trying to find out what some of you have been comfortable with.
Thanks in advance!

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #2

  • Ady
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4.7 if you plan to add a 4.2 at some point, 4.5 if not. Of course you can add a 4.0 one day. I’m personally a fan of the 0.5 or less increments in the small sizes. You can’t trimm them as much as the big ones, they become too twitchy when applying outhaul and/or downhaul beyond medium / at least mine do/.
www.sailworks.com/windsurfing-high-winds

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #3

Greg from Sheb. wrote:
A quick one for you guys : Which of these 2 scenarios would best cover wind range without too much overlap?
6.0 / 5.2 / 4.7
Or
6.0 / 5.2 / 4.5
Not a significant difference, I admit.
...Just trying to find out what some of you have been comfortable with.
Thanks in advance!


In Ezzy Tigers I go from 6.9 to 5.8 to 4.7 to 4.2. See charts and comments...

windsurfillinois.com/index.php/forum/cli...018-season-in-charts

Hope this helps.


The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #4

This is hilarious! I wish I could get that hair cut and show up at work like that.

Thank you both for the help. Seems like the gap between 6.0, 5.2 and 4.5 is more consistent in percentage of additional sail cloth if I go with this progression:
4.5 > 5.2 : +15.5%
5.2 > 6.0 : +15.3%
6.0 > 7.0 : +16.6%
But knowing that wind force is not linear, it seems to make sense to reduce the gap between sails the stronger the wind becomes. Here's what I found online:
"When wind speeds increase from 10 to 15 knots, the force doubles. When wind speed doubles, the force exerted increases by a factor of 4. If the force at 30 kts is 3.6 lbs/square foot the force at 60 knots calculates out to 14.4 lbs/ft(3.6 X 4 = 14.4)". "The wind force at 48 kts (Storm Force winds) is double what it is at 34 kts (Gale force winds)".
No wonder why sailing in 30kn with gusts at 40kn is so hard!
For more math see here: forum.gcaptain.com/t/wind-speed-to-force...er-square-foot/15221

So, I think what Ady is suggesting makes sense and a more usable sail range might look like that:
4.7 > 5.2 : +10.6%
5.2 > 6.0 : +15.3%
6.0 > 7.0 : +16.6%

Back to sail option, here's what I was thinking:
I sell:
5.7 and 5.0 Revo and switch to Ezzy's to keep things simple and for the deeper draft and slightly wider range.
I replace with:
6.0 Ezzy Lion (2-cam), 5.2 and 4.7 Ezzy Zeta (5-batten) to pair with my 115l Starship.
The secondary intent of the 6.0 is to foil with the 159l /90cm Falcon. ...Have to try foiling since the 9.4 V8 won't be something I will be able to handle forever (too taxing on my joints).

But there are a couple of things that bother me with that plan, though:
1- Will the overlap and tuning range between 6.0 Lion and 5.2 Zeta work?
2- Using the 6.0 Lion with the Starship in rough chop or on Lake Michigan's swell might not be the best combo. Although I sailed the Starship with the 7.0 Lion in rough waters before which was ok. I could go with a 6.0 Cheetah instead (Lion without cams) but that seems less ideal for foiling. I don't know...
...I'll sleep over that thought.

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #5

Per the website above, here's how to calculate Wind Force (in lb/sft). Source: U.S. Navy Sailors Handbook

Force per square foot experienced when wind is blowing perpendicular to a surface is calculated using this formula:
F = 0.004V(squared)

F = wind force measured in pounds per square foot
V = wind velocity in knots

Wind Speed (kts)______Force (lbs/square foot)
10__________________0.4
15__________________0.9
20__________________1.6
25__________________2.5
30__________________3.6
34__________________4.6

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #6

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Greg, where do you come up from with the presumption that only wave sails are for strong winds/rough water? Do slalom racers switch to wave sails above 30 kts? Quite the opposite, I think stable, locked-in shapes deliver better control and are just better suited for outboard/4 straps stance and blasting across and upwind. Wanna be wave riders/tricksters like me buy wave sails and boards believing one day they may start doing this things for real/doubtful/. Honestly, the only direction of sailing in which I feel comfortable with my “wave” kit is downwind. Not across and definitely not upwind. It’s exactly the opposite of my freeride kit . If I could afford it I probably will have parallel quivers -one just for blasting ,another for waves ...tricks ,etc ,etc. I can’t and I still keep having illusions that I will do more then just blasting back and forth one day , but this illusions are starting to fade away slowly, because the older I become the less stomach I have for anything else. It’s just too difficult, especially in our conditions so I don’t know anymore. Judge for yourself, but don’t give in to peer pressure and buy stuff just because the other guys buy it. I think we talked about this and I believe I suggested a quiver including the smallest Lion they make-6.0 and farther down whatever you can find as close to the Lion as possible-Cheetahs, Retros/which go down to 4.5 and you have a mast already/, Hucker, NX...or such from any other brand. You don’t need a wave sail to jibe, tack or basic jump. Also why not keep the Revos for the Windsup or just in case you buy in the future some smaller “wavy” board and try an actual wave riding? Why selling good sails for pennies on the dollar?
53511E5D-C5D2-4E38-9134-38124A462C50.jpeg

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #7

Ady wrote:
I think stable, locked-in shapes deliver better control and are just better suited for outboard/4 straps stance and blasting across and upwind. ...I believe I suggested a quiver including the smallest Lion they make-6.0 and farther down whatever you can find as close to the Lion as possible-Cheetahs, Retros/which go down to 4.5 and you have a mast already/, Hucker, NX...or such from any other brand. You don’t need a wave sail to jibe, tack or basic jump. Also why not keep the Revos for the Windsup or just in case you buy in the future some smaller “wavy” board and try an actual wave riding? Why selling good sails for pennies on the dollar?

I like your thinking, Ady. I'll look into that.

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #8

Having and using the right mast/s are especially important for small sails. It’s tough because you want a mast that’s has some flex but is still stiff enough as the winds get higher. If your masts are good then you get more ability to tune sails. What are you using?

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #9

Dietrich Ed wrote:
Having and using the right mast/s are especially important for small sails. It’s tough because you want a mast that’s has some flex but is still stiff enough as the winds get higher. If your masts are good then you get more ability to tune sails. What are you using?

I am using Ezzy masts with Ezzy sails. I had issues in the past with GA sails and wrong mast. I now just stick to the true and tested!

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #10

If you have Ezzy masts, then you should stick with Ezzy sails, because the masts are tuned to work with them. The Ezzy distributor is a good friend of mine let me know if any questions.

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #11

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What quiver/s do you have Ed? Sails, masts, boards? Give us some Gorge perspective, please.

The right gap between sail sizes 5 years 4 months ago #12

I’m not sure that I’m the best one to give you a “gorge” perspective. But happy to share what I know.

I have used Sailworks exclusively for about the last 20 years. I’m more into sailing lighter winds now since I’m older. I have a 7.5 Retro, Huckers in 6.6, 5.6, and 4.8 sizes. The 7.5 and 6.6 I rig on a NoLimitz Sumo 460, the 5.6 on a Gulftech 100% carbon 430 and the 4.8 on a Gulftech 400. I like Sailworks because they are very stable and tunable. The Huckers sail “big” for their size, but can be tuned to handle a lot of wind in their range.

Many people in the gorge that sail in high winds use Sailworks, but a lot also swear by Northwave. Northwave is usually a softer sail than Sailworks, but again a lot of long term gorge sailors would never use anything else. In recent years Ezzy has started to become more prevalent there. But again, if you use Ezzy, you really need to use their masts. They have a curve that NoLimitz engineered for them.

As far as boards, I have a Goya Volar 130, and an RRD Freestyle Wave 96. When it gets too big for that with the 4.8, I’m done.

For being back here in the Midwest, I got a Naish Hover Crossover 150 and their foil. I’m going to try it this Spring, and if there’s truly no wind I will put the SUP fins on it and paddle around.

Anybody here sailed Lake Shabbona? All input welcome. I am happy to point you towards the many folks I know and are friends in the Gorge.

Ed
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