Hi all

Was hoping to ask some questions and read some discussion on some stuff that's probably very basic to you all but is the next face on the learning curve for me!

Two things came up in my last sail, which was a lightening breeze day at Silver (and yes, I will be going to Wolf and others soon, was driving by on way back from Port Washington for work)

In the light stuff sometimes the puffs feel like they're _almost_ enough to get planing but just too soft. I've read about pumping to get on a plane, but so far the other time I've ever pumped was in zero wind to pull some air and get back to shore on my old gear. What's the right way to pump onto a plane when you have almost enough breeze to pop? I'm picturing pushing rig forward and out, and then pulling back and to windward while pushing with the front leg?

Waves: Last time I was out there were decent and regular little waves from the breeze, which stuck around a bit after the breeze got lighter. I was trying to be more aggressive about turning downwind to plane, and occasionally (like 15% success rate) I was able to use a wave to get a little extra go to make use of the puff. The problem was that when this didn't work it just meant I'm now a) pointing way downwind b)wallowing in the trough of a wave and losing all speed

Any tips to the above?

Pumping onto a plane:
Check these videos and Google for more.





One thing to add about these videos: The back leg appears to push down on the board. In reality, it pushes both down and LATERALLY to "load" the fin and create lift. Pushing down on the board will only sink the tail and will slow you down. The only time you want to pump while pushing more down than laterally is when you rid a foil. Pumping requires coordination and timing so don't be discouraged if it doesn't work initially. You need to build muscle memory like pretty much anything else in Windsurfing and this takes practice...

Using chop (or waves) to get planning:
Bearing downwind and catching a piece of chop to create momentum is the right thing to do. The timing is quite critical: You need to start pumping ahead of the wave or chop you want to ride. To catch up with the wave velocity, you want to start pumping while just passing by the crest of the previous piece of chop. Drifting downwind is the expected consequence of not being able to be successful every time. There's no way to avoid schlogging for a few tacks upwind to make up for lost ground and start again. Unless you are sailing in higher wind conditions, a planing tack will always start on a broad reach course to gain speed. Once you have speed (50-100 yards) you can edge upwind and make for lost ground.

Hope this helps.

I would say until you have learned how to plane fully in the straps, learning these marginal wind planing techniques is not that useful because in marginal wind the only way to remain planing is to be properly in the straps with as much weight as possible on the harness directed to the mast foot. Save your energy.

Thanks all, I am probably going to get some time with these techniques whether it's a good idea or not just by dint of when and where I'm able to sail. Can't imagine too many days like that (leftover chop and dying breeze) but the pump to plane seems to be a useful tool. What I really need is 20kts from a stable direction and a free day!

Nice conditions for the first part of a quick sail at Andrea today. www.instagram.com/p/Cc8wBV6vteW/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Tried pumping, I don't think I'm doing it right enough to help. Maybe one or two times it seemed to get me planing but I was trying to do it as a gust arrived so who knows.

Big change was fin: I bought a 52cm fin from a local guy and it was a huge difference. I've sailed in more wind, but this seemed to plane up really easily and stay there. According to some of the charts I found, the fin was too large for the 7.0m sail I was using, but it went great. What happens when your fin is too large for the conditions? Have to say I liked the help it gave me and would probably try it again when the guides say not to.

Really need to come up with a better clew mount for the Insta360; even the "nice" Flymount wobbles and slides around a lot. Might move it to the mast until I can come up with something that will hang out by the clew but not get destroyed on one of my many trips to the water.

I think the big fin helps initiate the planing, but then it slows you down at the top end, you might actually come off a plane the same as smaller fin because you were going slower, so it feels more powerful right up to the point of planing, For an 80+ wide board, 52 is not way over the recommendation, but if suitable for a larger sail 8.0+.

Thanks for the tips. Is the only penalty for being over-finned top end speed? I could live with that if it gets me planing more. Yesterday was the most time I spent on a plane, ever. Pretty much able to carry speed through lulls and link puffs together.

Nice job on your progress.
The other side effect of an oversized fin is Tail Walking. This happens when you are overpowered (Too big a sail size or a big gust of wind) and the excess power transferred to the fin creates too much lift. The effects are the nose of the board that lifts up, the tail that loses connection with the water, and a loss of control altogether. When in the straps, it feels like the board is uncontrollably oscillating from left to right - kinda like on a horseback in a rodeo! Tail Walking cuts down on your speed but can be easily recovered by sheeting out. If you don't, it could send you flying over the handlebar!

Big fin=big drag, not to mention weeds. Drag will affect your overall speed, not just top end and every windsurfing instructor will tell you that speed is your friend. Then why would you want to decrease it? In general we try to get away with the smallest fin possible that doesn't spin out too much. The main role of the fin is to counter the side pull of the sail thus allowing the board to run straight and not sideways. You don't need a fin to plane. My go to formula for fins on boards over 70cm wide is: sail size x 5+5=fin length . Example: 7.0 x 5+5=40 cm, as long as you use an suitable size board for the sail size. In your case the board is a bit oversized and a bit bigger fin like 42 or 44 cm will help counter the bigger side force that the board will create. Its that simple actually-if the fin doesn't loose grip causing spinouts regularly then its not too small. Occasional spinouts are ok.
As Greg already explained, tailwalks are nasty. I have personally experienced a few while experimenting with fin and sail sizes very much like you. My biggest kit right now is a 110L (75cm wide) board; 7.5 sail and a 42 cm (or was it 40?) MFC Freerace fin. For my 175 pandemic lbs. that's as big as I would go.
Now off to Wolf Lake to test my 42 (or 40) fin in the light breeze

Thanks all for the information, lots to apply here.
The big fin was the only difference in gear from a few weeks ago in similar windspeeds, but maybe the increased planing was also due to just getting another day on the water.
Do you ever test gear back to back? I have only changed sails one day so far, but it might be cool to rig 2 and sww what works, or change fins. I mess with harness line position and boom heigh a lot but haven't done much else.
I'm jealous Ady; I've been fixing up our yard all day and if I'm going to be this muddy it would be nice to getting it from a beachstart!
I have a trip to Milwaukee Wed for a quick project again, so hoping to hit Andrea, Silver or someplace else on the way back to Chicago. Really want a Wolf day as the size of the lake and the relatively flat ground around it seems like the wind is less messy than my spots so far.

For what it's worth, here are some additional perspectives about fin sizes that have worked for me. Like Ady mentioned, the goal is to ride as small of a fin as possible without spinouts.
I'm 190lb - 6'2"

159 liter lightwind freerace board
8.5 sail = 50cm fin
9.4 sail = 55cm fin (oversized fin here but helps in very light breeze!)

125 liter freeride/freerace board
8.5 sail = 42cm fin
7.0 sail = 39cm fin
6.0 and 5.4 sail = 37cm fin (35cm with the 5.4 would be better but the 37 works fine as long as I push the mas foot a couple of cm forward)

109 liter FreeStyleWave board
6.0 sail = Single 34 cm fin
5.2 sail = Single 34 cm fin
4.7 sail = Single 30 cm fin

So I swear I'm not just trying to buy all the gear, but what's the smallest sail the stock 44cm RRD fin would go to? It's a 135l board but very wide, like 85cm wide.