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TOPIC: Learning Progression

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #25

Thanks Reid! It's good to be back on the water after missing a year" I have watched that video and there's something about the stance that I can't seem to get comfortable with yet. It feels like I'm always reaching for the boom as I'm trying to balance myself to get into the straps and struggle to stay upright. I took some screen shots of Gregory in his video and he seems to be more squared up with the boom and his stance/foot position. Maybe some of it is harness line position/length and just getting comfortable or used to it.
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One major hurdle will be to get planning on a consistant basis so I can get my feet in the straps to get a better feel for everything. Yah Ady, to bad I was a day early at Wolf. I agree with you about the sails. I do have a 6.5 and I have a guy I'm trying to work out a deal with on a North 7.2 w/mast. He also has a 9.5 North, a JP 101L Carbon board as well as a Thoummen 162l Carbon board. The one thing I'm not crazy about at this time is uphauling. Two years ago I was using the 6.5 and that was a workout just getting it out of the water. That being said I need to focus on water starting. I will take your advice on the 4 strap approach to start getting used to it. Hope to see you out at Wolf in the near future!
Thanks!

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #26

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Wait a minute Garry, not so fast! I'm sure you have a gazillion questions, but the answers will come in time, the pieces will fall in place one after another. What you really HAVE to focus right now is PLANING-comfortably hooked in the harness lines with your feet secured in the straps! Exactly what Gregory is doing in the screenshots. Planing is the ultimate element of windsurfing that turns the initial curiosity into lifelong passion and the prolonged postponing of that crucial moment can make you loose your interest forever. This is not my idea, I've read it somewhere in the articles of Peter Hart and he actually was criticizing the outdated teaching routines of many instructors that spend to much time grinding over stances and turning and bore the wannabe windsurfers to death in the process. I couldn't agree more, planing is where the fun starts finally after all the hard labor.
Now let's get to work to be able to achieve that Holy Grail of windsurfing asap! To start with here is a great article from PH : www.windsurf.co.uk/peter-hart-up-and-riding-in-a-flash/ that I've bookmarked and keep rereading every now and then.
Let's also try to be more specific and look into a typical Wolf lake in the middle of summer scenario. A light to moderate SW wind in the 10 to 20 mph speed range like what I had in Thursday:
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/Im using the Calumet harbor sensor readings because they are more precise then the Wolf lake sensor readings/ Its a safe to presume that I wasn't able to plane at all during that looong lull between 13:30 and 15:15 when some storms came through and the wind dropped and shifted W. I stayed regardless and lived to enjoy the second set of nice SW wind, perseverance pays off :)
Imagine you are launching from the south end of the "beach " behind the playground. This will be the the most upwind point to launch and because you'll be drifting downwind constantly after that you have to make upwind ground any way possible. If the wind is not enough to beach start /because of the wind shadow that the isle creates/ you may uphaul and start slogging while pointing upwind as much as possible without stalling the board until you clear the wind shadow.
You can observe me doing it in the next picture. My stance here is like that of Shawna /the picture that Reid have posted a while back/ but much more upright. On a big board in flat water you don't need to exaggerate as much as when on a small board going over beach break like in my next picture. My back foot is across the center line of the board somewhere between the front and back foot straps with my toes pointing towards the leeward rail. My front foot is next to the mast foot pointed forward. Especially mark the way my head is turned and I'm looking upwind-this aids the board in pointing upwind and let's me spot any incoming wind gusts. During your future progress you'll start realizing how crucial the direction in which you are looking is.
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Ok, you are about to clear the wind shadow/while slogging upwind and looking upwind/ and you are spotting the ripples in the water ahead signaling the incoming of a gust. Now you may be already hooked in the harness lines or not, but start practicing by being hooked in because it's easier to apply the critical in the next phase mast foot pressure "mfp" . You need to start bearing off downwind ahead of the gust so you be in an optimal position ~45% to full downwind by the time it hits you. Since you've been heading upwind to that point you may have to bear off as much as 90%! You can observe this phase in my next 2 pictures . Important here is to put as much of your weight on the boom as possible by pushing down with your arms and hanging from the harness lines by stiffening your belly muscles. Your whole body gets lower over your back leg and you stand on your toes with both legs as much as possible to keep the board flat /with the back one / and to put additional pressure next to the mast foot /with your front one/ . Make sure you don't pull the rig over yourself but keeping it away and upright with relatively straight arms holding close to the harness lines.
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Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #27

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....continuing from my previous post.
You can clearly see in my last picture how far downwind I've turned compared to the first one; how stiff my body has become-torso, arms, legs and all and on top of that Im looking at /and my head is turned towards/ the mast foot to concentrate my whole stance over that critical part of the board where typically the rocker curvature creates the bow wave which you are aiming to lift your board over, make it "release" and start gliding over the water which it has just plowed until that moment. Unfortunately the wind was too light the day those pictures were shot so I'll use a different set to describe what happens next.
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In this picture set Im exiting a jibe /first session for the year on Clinton lake with Reid being so kind to work the camera/ and Im clearly not committed enough and standing much to upright to make a clean planing exit but thats a different topic. Back to you now. Unlike me in the picture you are committed and focused and hanging low from the harness line putting as much down pressure on the boom /belly muscles and arms/ as you can. You have gotten a taste at what happens next I understand from your posts and you are familiar with the feeling of the board releasing and starting to accelerate rapidly. This is the moment when you have to slide your front foot in the foot strap!!! You may inch back a little with both your feet if you have to but longer you linger and fumble at that the harder it will become to move your feet because the board keeps accelerating and it starts to get bumpy even on relatively flat water. So slide that front foot in ASAP! It is important to remember here rhat in order to have your front foot light and able to move your body weight needs to be suspended on the boom through the harness lines and arms!
In that same chain of movements you attach the last brink aswell-slide the back foot in also. Don't hesitate with that one either for the before mentioned reasons. At this point you are done pretty much and after letting the board gain a good speed sailing downwind you can turn now across or upwind if you like. Your body swings around the pivotal point between the harness lines from being back and out to being sideways and out /the so called "figure 7"/ -like what Gregory is doing in the screen shots.
You'll swing your body forward or backwards respectively and will have to bend your front or your back leg respectively for upwind or downwind sailing, but this will be our next topic,so lets have a successful planing attempt first and we'll come back to that later.
Another educational article from Jem Hall to wrap up my post with:
www.windsurf.co.uk/jem-hall-move-on-up-p...g-in-the-footstraps/
PS: You can always just sheat in , sail across and hope the wind will do all the work, but in the high summer good wind comes seldom and would be shame to waste it, so it would be wise to start the proper way and develop the right habits of optimal early planing now. You can always develop the bad ones later I think ;)

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #28

Ady, that's a great article! A lot to absorb but really wets the appetite and sponge to start absorbing how everything is supposed to come together. I also like your step by step description of getting up and planing. The sequence of what has to happen with the board (rocker curvature wall/wave of water) and what the operator of the rig should be doing with his hands, feet, arms, head, harness, prayer and anything else! This is really what I've been trying to find! A comprehensive overview of just what the heck I should be trying to coordinate! Then throw in having your kit properly tuned for conditions. Lots to think about! The articles point of "Understanding the Challenge" is a good one. Gets me thinking when you guys are looking ahead for a day to sail you're already sizing up your kit for the day. When you do this. are you guys sizing it for what you'll need to get on plane since you won't need as much wind/power once you're planing? or are some of you sizing it for optimal planing conditions or speed but not to much that you're overpowered? I remember getting my boat on plane like his article talks about. I'd drop both throttles, set the trim tabs and once it was planing I could pull back on the throttle power. Another good point he goes over is (and there are a lot in there!) is under "The Match". Two different kits and the mind set behind what you may think will work under those wind conditions, and what is really going to happen once you get on the water with each of them. Great stuff Ady! I'll be reading this article over many times as well as your tutorial. Thanks so much for your detailed description w/pixs. Some of what you described (The Pivotal Point) is what I felt the day I got up and planing. It's probably all second nature to you but I know this took a good deal of time, thought and energy. This will definitely help me get that board to what I call "Going Critical" the point where it breaks that bow wave and the real fun begins! No going back at this point! I accept the challenge! One more thing, there're going to be some ice cold Baverian beer waiting for you one of these days. Thanks again!

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #29

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Mmmm, Bavarische bier! Ausgezeicnet, danke schoen :) You've probably realized that already, but I love talking all things windsurf and when I'm able to help someone on top of that then it's double the pleasure, so you are welcome! Sizing the equipment ahead of time, you will certainly start doing when you accumulate so much junk that you can't stuff in your car anymore. The decision what to rig once you arrive at the launch site is often a difficult one again especially if you have too much equipment. Most of the time you'll split between 2 or more sail sizes that seem to match the conditions, sometimes it may be difficult to choose the right board even and you start taking into account the conditions you see in front of you and what the forecast for the day and spot says. A good starting point is also what the other guys are rigging especially those already on the water. Generally with time you'll start to read better the conditions at the spots you frequent and it will get easier to decide. Though sometimes you may rig the wrong kit or the wind may change a few times and you have to come in to resize, it sucks but it's part of the game. All this different types of boards and sails are probably confusing you also right now, but once you gain enough experience you'll know exactly what works best for you for specific conditions and specific spots and you'll collect yourself the right quivers of sails and boards and then you'll only have the sail size dilemmas more or less. All in due time!
tbc

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #30

Garry Zack wrote:
Thanks Reid! It's good to be back on the water after missing a year" I have watched that video and there's something about the stance that I can't seem to get comfortable with yet. It feels like I'm always reaching for the boom as I'm trying to balance myself to get into the straps and struggle to stay upright. I took some screen shots of Gregory in his video and he seems to be more squared up with the boom and his stance/foot position.


Actually Gregory is doing exactly what's in the instructional video...

Gregory getting on plane: Feet in front of straps. Front leg straight. Back leg bent. Hooked in, hanging weight on rig. That's how you keep from getting catapulted. As you gain speed and get in the straps, then you get what you call "squared up". Your sail sheets in as you gain speed.
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Instructional Video getting on plane: Feet in front of straps. Front leg straight. Back leg bent. Hooked in, hanging weight on rig.
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Ady getting on plane: Feet in front of straps. Front leg straight. Back leg bent. Hooked in, hanging weight on rig.
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Learn to use the Foostraps & get Planing.




You can also start/stop slowmo Gregory's video to see the nice overhead shot of the transition of schlogging hooked in, getting on plane and then getting in the straps.

Hope this helps.

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #31

Reid, I went back and checked Gregory's video to review the position of his feet and their transition from schlogging to planning. I didn't catch that initially but I also wasn't putting 2+2 together yet, Thanks! The planning video you shared and Adys pixs show a good view of body position and transition from schlogging to getting up on plane. I really like Gregory's overhead view as well as Adys fundamental breakdown, this really pulls this whole thing together for me. I'm going to try to visually imprint the sequence of this in my head for now. I can't wait to get back on the water to start working on it. Ribs are still a little tender but hopefully by the time I receive the new harness they'll be ready and we'll have some wind.

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #32

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I think I may have an idea where exactly the root of your problem is Gary! I recall now struggling the same way back then with a very similar kit-6.5 sail and 160L board. I even blamed the sail for a while, but what me then and you now were doing wrong, like every rookie, is that instead of thrusting our pelvis forward and suspending our weight from the boom, we thrust it backwards to resist the pull of the rig and we weigh down the tail of the board heavily . It starts to drag like driving a car with the hand break up and the sail starts to pull twice as much in the process. In stronger wind it usually results in the board making Weelies, we being catapulted or both, in lighter winds its mostly just stalling. The next time when there is enough wind for planing you may try to focus just on that one element which is fundamental. People do that same mistake later when they try to learn carve gybing. I suspect we are picking up this bad habit when we are learning the slow gybes /the flare gybes/, because this is the way to do them-weighing down the tail and stearing with the rig, but it becomes a habit early on and comes back to haunt us later.
Found this great example of me weighing down the tail unintentionally while gybing back in the day. That gybe didn't end well as far as I remember.
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Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #33

I think there could be some truth to that. I've been reviewing my last 3 outings to Wolf and what I was attempting to accomplish. After the Bonaire trip I wanted to get into the straps and hook in. So the first day, In my mind (here we go) I thought I'd use the big training board, smaller 4.7 sail, hook in (not worried if I was planning or not) put my feet in the straps and get a sense of what it will feel like and get used to it. No problem! Lots of confidence at the end of the day. But looking back on my initial train of thought, why wouldn't I have a problem? Big wide floaty board, small sail and 4 easily accessible straps, simple! Day 2: Lets try the 160l, 6.0 sail, hook in and get into the straps so we can get planning. Now it got interesting! Hooked in, not planning and only able to get the back foot in. I struggled to get my front foot even close to the strap as I was positioning myself for the perfect "7", not on plane and felt as if I was trying to hold the sail up with my left arm as not to tip over (go ahead I enjoy hearing some of the laughter out there!). I couldn't understand why I couldn't get my front foot in and why I wasn't even close to planning. Until I somehow got caught up in a gust of wind I drove my back foot down into the board, my front foot into the mast base and sank back into my Ace Bandage harness. Up and away I was up flying along on plane! Day 3: Determined to hook in and get booth feet into the straps no matter what it took and get up on plane. Well I hooked in, not on plane and got both feet into the straps and maintained as perfect a "7" as I could muster up. I maintained this position most of the day just schlogging along trying anything to get up on plane. I guess in my mind I thought I could drive the board up on plane by trying to drive my feet forward as I tried to pull back on the boom and sink back into the harness. Boy did I learn a lot of what not to do! But now I'm locked and loaded!

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #34

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How is that deal about a bigger sail going? Did you buy the 7.2 ? Looking at the forecast for the next week you may need even bigger then that-big engine to pull your board in those light summer breezes :( How much do you weigh btw?

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #35

I do have a 6.5, but the guy with the 7.2 deal is about 2 hours north of Traverse City Michigan. My mother lives near Traverse and I'm planing to see her mid July if things go as planed. We have a deal if it's still available when I get up there. Depending how many muffins I have for breakfast I'm usually around 170lbs.

Learning Progression 6 years 9 months ago #36

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Ok, so you are just slightly heavier then me /165 before the muffin/ . Body weight is important for kit size choice and perhaps this is a good moment to recommend you another PH article worth bookmarking:
www.windsurf.co.uk/all-a-quiver/
Purely by coincidence I have a very similar quiver to the one shown just one size smaller and without the 81L wave board , because I haven't felt the need for one so far .
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I also have a similar sail quivers and use them in a similar fashion, only mine are all Sailworks instead. I have Sailworks Retro 7.5 and 6.5 to use on my AtomIQ 110 and Revo 5.7; 5.2;4.6 and 4.2 to use on my Kode Freewave 94, the 5.7 and 5.2 I put on my 9' Converse windsup also.
As you can see I have a 1m area difference in my big freerace sails and 0.5 m in my wave sails which for me works perfect. For that reason I think that a 7.2 sail may overlap too much with a 6.5 if they are of the same type and I would recommend you a sail sizes of 7.5 to 8.0 to go with the 6.5. I also like my sail quivers to be of the same brand and model , because they have the same feel on the water and simplifies rigging and mast choice . Many people use a mishmash of brands and models though and my find my pickiness snobbish :blush:
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