Thursday, March 28, 2024
Log in Register

Login to your account

Username *
Password *
Remember Me

Create an account

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.
Name *
Username *
Password *
Verify password *
Email *
Verify email *
Captcha *
Reload Captcha
Welcome, Guest


  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #13

  • Ady
  • Ady's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Hurricane Force
  • Posts: 1776
Honestly, this is an awkward couple :lol: Just kidding. On a more serious note-thick footstraps to make up for skimpy pads ?! I suspect the bean counters are running the show over at Naish. Otherwise all good decisions on your behalf and if the smaller fin spins out too much /suppose not/ you can move the back footstrap to the forward most holes to relieve it even more. Once you are completely satisfied with the footstraps placing you can start playing with the mast foot position-on the Kode I usually place it slightly forward of center with my 4.6 and 4.2 /when its very rough/ for more directional stability; smack in the middle with the 5.2 and slightly back of center with the 5.7 for more liveliness and tighter turning. I never place it forward of center on the Atom on the other hand-that board is sticky to begin with. Some experimenting always pays off by getting to know your board better. Don't forget the all important boom hight aswell-higher for more nose lift and early planing and lower for less nose lift and more control. Just don't overdo the control /with both the mastfoot and the boom/ otherwise the board will start tripping in the chop and even nose diving resulting in nasty catapults.

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #14

Thanks for the tips. Very useful.
What's the minimum wind you need to sail the Kode with your 5.7?
I've wondered which, between a 6.5 Cheetah and a 5.7 Revo, would get me on a plane faster in identical conditions and identical board? My experience with both is telling me that the Cheetah is softer and delivers power more gradually while the Revo is a lot more direct and transfers power more instantly. I'll have to rig both and try them out during the same session to see the difference. I suspect that I might be able to get similar results in terms of how early it will get the board on a plane. Of course, the way each sail is tuned will be influential...

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #15

  • Ady
  • Ady's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Hurricane Force
  • Posts: 1776
You are right, the difference in early planing threshold between a 6.5 freeride sail and a powerful onshore wave sail like the Revo is not very big. I don't know for sure the exact numbers, but probably 18 mph sustained wind speed is where i'm going for the Revo ...or less !? It seems low, but Im just craving to hop on the Kode! For me personally the biggest factor when deciding between the 6.5 and the 5.7 is the board because I always use the 5.7 with my 94 and the 6.5 with the 110. You know-wave sail with wave board and a slalom type freeride sail with the corresponding board. The two sails force you into different kind of stance and they feel somewhat out of place on the wrong board. Before buying the 94 Kode I used a few times the 5.7 on the Atom and it worked, but I never liked it much.
I admit I'm more sensitive about winsurfing setups then probably is healthy, but it just boders me a lot when there is some kind of mismatch or when a rig doesn't feel right, be it wrong mast, crappy or misplaced boom or harness lines. The same goes for boards and sails match-if it's wrong I can feel it and it boders me.
Now your Starship is a bit of a hybrid more or less and setting it up with 4 foot straps will allow using both types of sails, because the board is not as wide as the Atom and I presume that it will feel OK either way. Just keep in mind that Sailworks sail like a lot of downhaul/but not too much outhaul/ and use the lower clue hole when you start to get overpowered, it goes well with lower boom position also .

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #16

  • Ady
  • Ady's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Hurricane Force
  • Posts: 1776
I feel like I have to add some more clarification about what drives my decisions when choosing sails and boards for the session ahead, so I post again on the topic.
My strategy has changed throughout the years and it keeps changing with the progression of my skills and this is certainly how it should be and it is a fairly typical path for a mildly ambitious freerider like me. After progressing into the intermediate skill category my interest switched from riding whatever whenever to blasting on ever bigger sails and wider boards. This phase ended after a few seasons fortunately , but not before inflicting some damage on joints and lower back. Eventually I started to part with my bigger stuff and started to expand my TOW in more wavy environments along Lake Michigan. Bad decisions about kit and launching spots delayed my progress for a couple of seasons at least , but with the equipment and the information that I have now I hope to be able to make up for the lost years. This is why I urge people passionately into buying Windsups and getting into waves asap , hopintheyll be spared my own mistakes.
Now this turned out to be a bit longish introduction but I deem it necessary to beter explain where I am now and how I got here. So my mantra changed from "Go big or go home " to : use as smallest kit available for the conditions of the day without sacrificing the fun factor too much. I have come to the point now where the devil is not whispering in my ear anymore but screaming that it is time to replace the Atom and the Retros with a big Kode or even a Flare and a 6.2 Revo and maybe a 6.6 Hucker to top the quiver. Unfortunately this will be another big investment that I can't afford currently, so it will have to wait for unspecified number of years :( Meanwhile I will have to suck it up and keep doing with the Retros things that they are not designed to do .
I hope you will better understand now the motives behind my kit choices and if and how they relate to your goals. In a nutshell when I'm undecided between two sail sizes I go for the smaller one first especially when there is a chance for the wind to pick up later. And when I have to choose between the Kode/Revo and the Atom/Retro I will choose the Kode and the wave sail always regardless of the early planing penalty that I'll suffer, because the smaller kit allows me to do more things and because I have still a lot of catching up to do with it.
Yesterday's session on Wolf is a great example of my current state of affairs. When I pulled into the parking lot around 11 am there was only one kiter on the water and the only windsurfer present at the time told me that the 6.1 sail that he went out with is too small for the long lulls and he was sitting on the shore and waiting for the wind to pick up as promised in the forecast. Completely disregarding his warning and letting myself being fooled by the rare strong gust I rigged up the 5.7 set up the Kode with a single 28cm fin and went sailing boldly. At least 45 min of misery followed, trying desperately to just keep the board afloat, before I finally gave up /Im stubborn on top of everything/. I came in and rigged up the 6.5 Retro with the Atom and sailed nicely powered most of the time until just after 4PM when I realized that the stronger wind is not just a long gust but it has picked up for good. If I didn't have my 94/5.7 waiting ready on the shore I would have certainly just downhaul/ outhaul the Retro to the max and would have put the mast foot forward of the current position-this late in the day and fairly tired I wouldn't have bothered to rig another kit I would have missed the fun and gaining skills with the Kode. The wind numbers in the graph are probably not very precise, but definitely closer to the reality then the Calumet harbor readings which are even lower then those.

IMG_2138_2017-08-18.png

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #17

It’s really interesting to see the various strategy everyone uses to maximize TOW. I have to admit that having more choice of equipment is a blessing and a curse. It can be inhibiting and enabling all at once.

So, I don’t pretend I have it right but I am taking things a bit differently: I often had to rig a couple of sails in most of my sessions to cover for my approximate wind estimates (In Sheboygan, the wind on shore can be 5-10 knots weaker than 150 yards out). This is hard to read (even when looking at the white caps) and my experience of the spot is that there is hardly anything predictable about that place. I haven’t been able to establish a pattern that could help make more informed calls. So, I’m used to it and rigging twice is part of the routine. There has been several occasions when I went back and forth between 2 size sails as the conditions were changing up and down. I’ve invested in a separate mast for each sail and I’m sharing couple of booms and 3 extensions across my entire quiver to keep things ready to go as much as possible. I am blessed to be able to afford all that stuff (and I realize that!) and it proved very useful.

One point of difference between our respective approach: I tend to rig on the bigger side of what I think is right. Almost every time I rigged conservatively, I’ve been disappointed with my choice and got frustrated on the water. Not enough power to get on a plane or just too many lulls to keep sailing on a plane. In addition, the energy spent on trying to get the board going when it’s barely enough, is just not worth it. I take no pleasure sailing and waiting for the occasional gust that will get me going for a few minutes here and there.

As far as boards are concerned, I’m still discovering, as you could see, what, when and how to use it. I’m making progress though. I really like the 124L Freeride. I’m now very familiar with it and know how to take advantage of it to its maximum potential (relative to my level). This is my to-go board when:
- The water is too cold (below 50-55F) and I need some perceived safety in the form of buoyancy (Just in case I break something),
- I’m in moderate shape early in the season and need something easy I know well that doesn’t challenge me too much,
- The wind is fluky, gusty and barely sufficient to get me on a plane and the added buoyancy helps me to still come back where I started or even uphaul if need be (Can’t do on the 100L),
- Or when I just want simple and easy fun time on the water.
I like riding this board so much on the rails that if I could I would step it up one notch with a SB Futura of a similar size. Day-dreaming...

The 124 L AtomIQ becomes a liability when the wind picks-up above 20 knots though. The board is hard to control in the chop. This is where the 100L Starship comes in – or at least was trying to! I had a couple of good times on it so far and a couple of really bad experiences but I’m committed. I’m almost certain the issues are the result of my inexperience and resulting bad choices, not the fault of the equipment that could have been inadequate to the conditions I found in my area.

Finally, the large Falcon Lightwind is really cool and fast but adds a bit of confusion to the mix for sure: It is proving more than capable in 18 knots with a 7.5 freeride sail in pretty substantial swell… I don’t regret buying it but it overlaps the 124L range a bit and just adds one more option in the lowest wind ranges. I think that a foil would have been the best choice to sail under 10 knots for sure…

To me, the difficulty in dealing with choices and extended quiver is not so much about avoiding making mistakes in selecting the equipment resulting from the added complexity, it is about not having ALL the equipment available when I'm out on the beach. That sounds almost obvious but there has been times when I left the Falcon or the 124L or a couple of small-sized sails at home because the forecast wasn’t favorable and I didn’t bother stuffing the car with the whole kit. And that’s when the forecast is wrong and I'm missing the right board and sail. I guess I need a Van to carry all that stuff. My wife wants one too for going camping. Guess who’s gonna win! ;)

Finally, I haven’t yet set myself with particular goals in this sport. I’m just happy to be going out and improving on my jibes, and show the kites who’s faster, ha! I know, this is shallow but it’s all in good fun.

Been saying this already, but I’ll have to take a day off one of these days and drive down to south Chicago and meet/sail with you and the locals. Cheers!

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #18

  • Ady
  • Ady's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Hurricane Force
  • Posts: 1776
It's like a "dejavou"! Reading your post is like going again through my own dilemmas from 2013/14 when I owned: Windsup; 136L JP Super Sport; 112L RRD Firerace and 93L JP FSW , bunch of sails as well: 9.0 Retro, 8.5 Loft Switchblade ; 7.5 Ka Koyote; 6.5 Retro; 5.8 Ka Kult and 5.0 and 4.2 Revos. It's so much simpler now and as I said I intend to make it even simpler than that once I'm able to afford it.
I'm very curious if you'll get to the same conclusions like me and many other more experienced Midwest windsurfers. Local conditions and peer example are a powerful motivators. Time will tell.

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #19

Wow, impressive. Indeed, i see the similarities with me at the moment. So your predictions might turn right. For now though, I haven't yet realized I have a dilemma: I'm still in the mindset of a collector that just enjoys his "toys"! Let's see how long that will last. :)

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #20

  • Ady
  • Ady's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Hurricane Force
  • Posts: 1776
Reflecting back on my freerace years I think what was missing to keep the fire burning was challenge. Freerace without the race equation started to loose some of the attraction after a while for me. Chasing around people who don't want any of it is not much fun and can actually end badly like when a Wolf newcomer freaked out and dropped his sail in front of me which resulted in my fin shredding the top panel of his sail. That was probably the turning point for me . I felt very bad and gave him 100$ for repairs, but that dude never showed up at Wolf again.
On the other hand if I were able to afford traveling around the country and taking part in the various amateur regattas that would have been a lot of fun. All the adrenaline of the competition on top of meeting people and seeing places. That would have kept me in freerace department for sure!

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #21

Very good point.

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #22

  • Ady
  • Ady's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Hurricane Force
  • Posts: 1776

Naish 100L Starship 2017 un-boxed 6 years 7 months ago #23

Right-on Ady and this confirms my earlier point:
Again, the Naish straps on the Starship are super comfy but they are padded too thick which narrows the side to side opening too much. This prevented from extracting my foot when slightly out of alignment (like during a jibe the first time in got injured and when I got catapulted the second time 2 weeks ago). My foot was literally binding in there. At 9 & 1/2 I don't have big and large feet, do I? So, feet size wasn't a factor. The strap inserts on the Starship are spaced like on my other boards, so that's not the issue. IMO, the straps have a slight design flaw that gets amplified with non expert rider like me.
There again, the solution: Adding a couple of cm side to side by setting the straps one hole over. I tried it on land and I now can extract my feet at will from a broad and safe range of angles like on my other boards. This plus a smaller fin in high wind days should hopefully make a big difference.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.183 seconds